(NOTE: Unexpected red tape has actually stalled the ban from passing. Mayor Street promises to have this done by the end of the year)
Today Philadelphia City Council FINALLY passed a bill to ban smoking in bars and restaurants. Sidewalk cafes and private clubs are exempt, and bars whose food receipts total less than 10% of the total revenue will have an extra two years to implement the new law (Jan. 08). For all other businesses, the ban will take effect in January 2006. Hallelujah!
(Of course, the final vote could still be vetoed by the Mayor — he supports the law but feels this one is not strict enough.)
Hopefully the state of Pennsylvania will get their act together shortly, similar to how Massachusettes and New York state passed laws once their major cities were on board.
Obviously this decision is being met with a wide variety of reactions, and everyone seems to be an expert. Including me…
If you haven’t figured this out by now, I love the new law. What it really comes down to is how your actions affect other people; I’m fine with smoking — people should be allowed to do it as much as they so choose, as long as it does not put others in danger. Smoking in enclosed, public spaces does just that — it forces those around the smoker to inhale toxic air. This is a public health issue, period. Smoking negatively affects the air in a bar or restaurant, and thus negatively affects all breathing employees and customers of that restaurant.
I’ve had a lot of conversations about this particluar issue, and heard the same weak arguments from smokers over and over again. So, in the spirit of one-sided debating, I’ve decided to respond to the most common smoker “counterpoints”:
“Why not ban drinking? How is it different than drinking? People who want to go to non-smoking bars are hypocritical because they are drinking at those bars.”
It really cracks me up when people compare cigarette smoking to drinking alcohol. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
If I sit next to you and you smoke a cigarette, it affects me. I am forced to inhale toxins that negatively affect my health. If you are drinking a beer, I am not affected in any way. As I said earlier, this is all about how your actions affect other people.
Drinking is legal. Drinking and driving is not legal. Acting disorderly when drunk is not legal. Basically, you can drink to your heart’s desire as long as it does not endanger others.
Smoking should follow the same suit… Smoke your little heart out as long as it does not affect other people. Unfortunately, smoking in an enclosed space affects everyone around you, which is why it should be banned.
As far as I’m concerned, this should be applied to other drugs as well — If someone wants to smoke pot or do coke or whatever in the privacy of their own home and doesn’t allow that to negatively affect anyone else, why should it be illegal?
“This is a violation of my rights; I have a right to smoke”
No, you don’t. Smoking cigarettes may be legal in this country, but it is neither a protected interest nor a fundamental right, so the government can choose to regulate it as they please. In actuality, there are already a wide range of regulations on smoking that receive little compliaint; Smoking is banned in office buildings, airplanes, etc., and extending this ban to bars & restaurants is simply our government updating existing laws to better serve and protect the public welfare. Until we pass a constitutional ammendment to protect this so-called “right to smoke”, you’re SOL.
“If you dont like the smoke, dont go to bars.”
Personally, I have curtailed my bar hopping because I can’t handle the smoke. But it isn’t that simple. I like going to bars, and miss it (unless I’m in one of the smoke-free states, in which case it’s great). In addition, there are other events that I enjoy, say a ROCK ‘N ROLL SHOW, where I must endure smoke to attend. Why is that? I have to endanger my health to see a band I like?
I also had a stint as a live music reviewer — a career I’ve dreamed of having — but in order to do so I had to visit many a smoking venue. I just don’t want to live in a world where pursuing a dream requires endangering one’s physical health.
“You just don’t want to smell like cigarettes; Second hand smoke only affects people with long term exposure, not the casual bar drinker.”
Does anyone truly know the exact effects of spending 2-6 hours in a smoky bar per week over a long period of time? I’m not ashamed to admit that I do not. (I’m sure it differs per person.) What I do know is that smoke contains a ton of harmful toxins and carcinogens, and I don’t want to take any chances by exposing myself to them. I shouldn’t have to.
Many of these laws were passed with the idea in mind that bar workers should not have to work in a smoking environment — office buildings are smoke-free, why aren’t all workplaces? I couldn’t agree more. Interestingly, the whole workplace thing does not only affect people who choose to work at bars. As I mentioned earlier, I spent some time writing live music reviews on a regular basis, most of which took place at smoking venues. That profession has nothing to do with smoking, but I still was forced to deal with it everytime I went to write a review.
“Private business owners should have right to choose.”
Private business owners cannot allow people to break the law in their establishment just because it is privately owned. Smoking is a public health issue, and laws are being created to handle it. If the government sees fit to pass a new law to uphold the public welfare, private business owners must obey that law. This is a civilized society — laws that everyone must obey are a necessary evil.
Smokers and non-smokers obviously will continue to battle over this issue. I’m just happy this much-needed ban is finally making its way to my neck of the woods.
Comments
44 responses to “Philadelphia Smoking Ban — Finally!!!”
I agree with your argument that smoking is a health hazard and that people should not smoke in bars; however I do not think that people should rearrange their lives because a few people smoke in a bar. Also, the amount of pollution we breath in everyday is a health hazard a little is really done with regard to air pollution. That does not mean we stop going outside…Does it?
I have been out to bars and I do have the occasional cigarette while drinking. I can take it or leave it, it does not affect me having a good time. My point is, a few nights a month, year, season of being in a “smoky” bar verses going outside in a highly polluted city everyday is not really that much different. Your lungs are consuming almost the same chemicals and foreign substances either way.
People are smoking less and less in bars restaurants, etc, people are becoming aware of the health hazards and concerns, but on their own not through force. I think people should really just get over it and stop trying to change people. We do have freedom of expression, and to speak what we feel…at least for now!
Songoose – I cant agree with you more. I love hitting the bars, but honestly i feel worse the next day from the smoke than from the alcohol. My lungs feel awful. Smoke has got to go. I too will go out more when the ban takes effect. People like me would compensate for the smokers who might go out less, although knowing my smoking friends, I doubt anything would stop their bar hopping routine. In NYC, bar receipts have not gone down since the ban.
To respond to Angela, granted you are inhaling toxic chemicals anywhere you take a breath in the world. But people should be aiming to reduce their “total exposures”. Everytime youre exposed to toxins at high levels makes you ever so slightly more likely to get a lung related disease. Conceptually it is the same as UV rays and skin cancer. Every burn or even hour in the sun makes you incrementally more likely to develop skin cancer.
freedom means sometimes people get their toes stepped on. if you back being free, deal with those consequences. i don’t particularly care for smoky environments, but i respect the right someone has to suck on toxic fumes. if it bothers you… leave. funny that the same people screaming about “my lungs” and taking away the freedom to smoke are usually the first ones to scream about freedom to choose to abort babies.
This is a fake issue. No one cares about this subject until people start talking about it then everybody is polarized, there are thousands of places that you can go and eat, drink, see music, do whatever you want without enduring smoke. This is not a real issue. There is such an unbelievable money spent by the smoking lobby to make this into a hot button issue, but people as a whole don’t care until they are asked and then they start spouting rhetoric.
I’ll tell you this, I live in Philly and run a successful business I was planning on opening a bar in the next 5 years, if this ban really goes through I won’t be able to do that because I was going to open my bar in an emerging neighborhood and bans kill the expansion of the bar industry.
This city has real problems the city council should have been working on those for all the time they spent on this bullshit.
And for mr live music critic: In NYC some of the places that have been dealt the worst blow by the ban are live music venues. So put that in your pipe and look at it angirly.
Also unless we’re talking about diffrent cities, you’re mistaken:
June 10, 2005
Smoking ban vote tabled by Council
by Angela Couloumbis, Inquirer Staff Writer
The Philadelphia Inquirer
Philadelphia – At Mayor Street’s request, City Council yesterday postponed voting on a citywide ban on smoking until fall.
Councilman Michael A. Nutter, the sponsor of the smoke-free legislation, received a letter from Street yesterday morning asking him to hold off on bringing the measure up for approval. The bill would have required most workplaces in Philadelphia – including bars and restaurants – to ban smoking indoors.
In the letter, Street wrote that he thinks there is a “clear majority” of Council members who are receptive to the idea of a ban, but believes that “significant work must be done to carve out a clear majority in support of a specific” bill.
Yesterday’s postponement was the third time Nutter has kept the measure from going to a final vote, where it most likely would have failed. Some of the ban’s initial supporters have, in recent weeks, started backing away from voting for it, while opponents have threatened to try to amend it on Council’s floor.
And at his weekly session with reporters yesterday, Street said that had Nutter’s bill been voted down yesterday, it would have sent “a bad message to the public at large that the issue was dead.”
His goal is for Philadelphia to become smoke-free by the end of the year.
“My goal is to have a bill, either amendments to the existing bill or a new bill, prepared for introduction the first week back in September, and have it approved before there is a holiday recess,” Street said.
Street also said he wants to garner at least 12 votes in favor of a smoking ban – not just the nine that are needed for Council approval. “I don’t like 9-8 votes,” he said.
Nutter, who introduced the smoking-ban legislation on Street’s behalf this year, has for months been one vote shy of getting the measure approved in Council.
Yesterday, he said he was disappointed that “thousands of people will continue to be forced to work in smoke-filled, toxic environments.”
But, Nutter said, he remains optimistic that, with the mayor’s assistance, Philadelphia will eventually join the ranks of cities and states that have enacted smoking bans.
Nutter’s bill, introduced this year, would require most workplaces to go smoke-free – with a few exceptions, including sidewalk cafes and specialty tobacco stores.
Under amendments made to the bill last month, there would also be a two-year reprieve for bars that could prove they earn less than 10 percent of their income from selling food.
Street complained last week that Nutter had made those changes without consulting with him. He also said he had serious concerns about the amendments.
________________________________________
Contact staff writer Angela Couloumbis at 215-854-2827 or acouloumbis@phillynews.com. Inquirer staff writer Marcia Gelbart contributed to this article.
Copyright 2002-2005 The Philadelphia Inquirer. Used with permission.
I use to smake and quit for 8 years, but that was my choice. I feel that smoking should be banned in Philadelphia. If smoking did not effect other people in the bar, then it would not matter, but it does. I feel like crap when I visit a bar that has a lot of smokers. When ever I go out in areas that have a smoking ban such as NY, or NJ, I do not feel like crap the next day.
My question is (and I emailed the mayor’s office and my councilman but have not gottn a response) what happens to the neighborhoods when all the smokers head outside for a puff? So many bars are located in residential areas that smokers congregating on the streets outside these establishments (and all the smoke and soot and litter that entails) is a real concern. Although I agree a “smoking ban” is overdue and has established precident (Dublin, New York City), gangs of drunken smokers outside our houses, leaning on our cars loudly cavorting until 2am is something we need to be exposed to either. How this change in culture effects the areas around these establishments needs to be considered. Thanks.
You’re a moron. That’s all.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I really can’t argue with this ban. Why cant I believe it? I’m a music promoter, a smoker, and recently been diagnosed with emphysema. I am also only 36 years old. I have been around second hand smoke all my life….mmmmm
I am also a recovering alcoholic. And I never realize how smokey the clubs were until I stop drinking in them. I would have tobacco hangovers. If clubs put money out for a decent smoke eater or designated a second floor for smoking maybe there might have been some flexibility?
When I was in Australia, they wouldn’t let you smoke near the bar because employees didn’t want a gasp of it, also they didn’t want smoke in your ice. But here you are allow to just smoke at the bar.
I do feel that it will hurt the original live music scene unfortunately. I saw what it did to Maryland and New York. It is hard enough for a original band to keep a new comers attention. Also when you have large groups of people gathering close, like they do at rock shows, you have to hire more security. Because you don’t want to pay those fine for those trying to sneak a smoke in a crowd.
If we only knew then what we know now. I hate being a smoker. To stop drinking is much easier then smoking. Take it from someone who has to have there left lung reduced.
And I believe we had rights too.
Why do i have to pay ridiculous amount of money for quit smoking aids?
Why don’t we have Free clinics to treat those with this addiction?
I started smoking at a trade high school. It was allowed in the parking lot in a painted -out box on the asphalt.
If you wanted hang with the cool kids you had to have a smoke in your hand to be in that box. I was 16 years old. I don’t feel to cool anymore.
Should I sue the school?
I think not.
It is a shame you people don’t have any feet. Because if you did, you wouldn’t have to stay in the smoky restaurants and bars that offend you so much. You could just stand up and walk to an establishment that voluntarily forbids smoking. ‘Tis a pity.
Nothing gets me more angry than when someone thinks they know what is best for me. I am 34 years old. I have never smoked a cigarette, cigar, or pipe in my life. I would never in a million years consider doing so. That being said, if a tavern or restaurant owner wants to allow smoking in his establishment, he should be free to do so.
It seems that the primary argument you folks are providing is the health of the employees. I can certainly be sympathetic to that issue. I would not work in a smoke-filled bar for the rest of my life either. But I am not presumptuous enough to tell others that they can’t. If someone doesn’t want to breathe second-hand smoke in the workplace, then my advice to them is, work somewhere where that is not an issue. Then an owner of an establishment that allows smoking may have to pay his employees a marginal amount above and beyond what an employee at a non- smoking establishment earns. If this becomes cost-prohibitive, then the owner can either decide to go non-smoking, or close the business.
——————–
“If you dont like the smoke, dont go to bars.”
Personally, I have curtailed my bar hopping because I can’t handle the smoke. But it isn’t that simple. I like going to bars, and miss it (unless I’m in one of the smoke-free states, in which case it’s great). In addition, there are other events that I enjoy, say a ROCK ‘N ROLL SHOW, where I must endure smoke to attend. Why is that? I have to endanger my health to see a band I like?
I also had a stint as a live music reviewer — a career I’ve dreamed of having — but in order to do so I had to visit many a smoking venue. I just don’t want to live in a world where pursuing a dream requires endangering one’s physical health.
——————–
You know, I would like Chinese restaurants, if only they served Italian food. Somebody should make a law about that.
Do you hear how ridiculous this argument is? Whoever wrote this article has some serious growing up to do. Being an adult means you sometimes have to make decisions. “At this concert, my favorite band is playing. Is the cost of breathing second hand smoke for 3 hours greater or less than the enjoyment I will get from hearing them?”. I can’t debate that for some this would be a tough choice. But at least you have a choice. The current smoking ban does not give a choice to establishment owners.
I’ll make you a deal. Don’t force your prejudices on me, and I will do the same for you.
P.S.: After constructing my response, I wen’t back and re-read the article. Either this guy has written his piece tongue-in-cheek, or he is 9 years old.
“Smoking in enclosed, public spaces does just that — it forces those around the smoker to inhale toxic air”
What a joke!!!
I hate the smoking ban. Personally, businesses are losing out. I’m a smoker and I do not intend to eat out half as much as I used to. I’m disgusted. Why didn’t they just keep it the way it was.. smoking/non-smoking sections? I will also only go to bars/clubs that allow smoking. THANK YOU MAYOR STREET FOR VIOLATING MY CIVIL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.. I may just move the hell out of the city!
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Pity smokers have no rights, though you enjoy the taxes we pay on ciggy’s! I was prepared to travel to Philadelphia for a week, stay at the University Sheraton as I have for a number of years, but instead I will give another community, and probably state 10k of my money…oh and I will buy ciggy’s there too!
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